Christopher Webster [Celluloid 08.31.11] movie news scifi



[editor's note: This follows on the heels of news that a digital Yoda will replace the puppet in Episode I. I'm trying to figure out if it's legit, but as of now it seems to be.]

I'm not a Lucas hater. In fact, anyone who knows me knows I'm an apologist if anything. I've always stuck up for Lucas' prequels and his alterations to the trilogy (though I was smart and held on to my original trilogy). But now... well, I don't know. Remember when Greedo shot first and you were like; "say what?" this is weirder.

As you all know, the Star Wars saga is coming out on Blu-ray soon. Some people speculated that the trilogy may change yet again. And now there's proof it has. Two videos have appeared. One features Vader yelling "noooooo" as he throws the emperor over the Deathstar chasm. This is obviously a call back to the end of Episode III, but it's not okay.

The second video shows that Obi Wan's Krayt Dragon yelp has changed in Episode IV (also known as the original Star Wars).

So what do you guys think? Is this going too far?

Check out the videos below





AICN equates Obi Wan's new scream to getting a BJ in the back alley.

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coelacanth1938 (10 years ago) Reply

The "Nooooo!" is okay by me. It's Annakin regaining his humanity. But the new dragon cry? I dunno.

agentorange (10 years ago) Reply

Yeah, that "dragon cry" is... suggestive ;)

syilakown (10 years ago) Reply

LOL OMG! Obi Wans "Dragon Call" sounds like something out of the Simpsons when Homer asks the waiter why he talks so weird and the waiter says "ive had a strooooooke!!' lol
google, i had a stroke, simpsons

and the Vadar 'NO" hmmmm tough to say, it kinda works and kinda doesnt....and im a fan of the original uncut SW Trilogy too!!!

MEGAT0N (10 years ago) Reply

I don't mind Vader crying "Nooo!" in general, but it just sounds strange here. It's certainly not very James Earl Jones'ish, and seems timid rather than enraged.

The dragon call thing is just stupid. There was nothing wrong with the original sound effect, and so much of the "nostalgia" of movies is remembering certain sounds from them. I still cringe at one of the updated laser blast effects in the EP4 Special Edition.

hellford667 (10 years ago) Reply

I object to any changes of the original part 4 to 6, i think changing anything except for picture quality and sound..without really changing the original sounds, is blashpemy really and perverts movie-making...next we get 3 d and then? STAR-O -VISION, or what..go to hell, GL...

Anonymous (10 years ago) Reply

Don't really see the point of any of the changes.

HAMMERHEAD (10 years ago) Reply

Dont really care either way buts its a good marketing tool anytime you can create contraversy as evidenced above.

Anonymous (10 years ago) Reply

george, dude- move on!

rbk (10 years ago) Reply

"I've always stuck up for Lucas' prequels " - didn't know anyone stuck for those bloody things...

agentorange (10 years ago) Reply

Dont' get me wrong. I see their glaringly obvious flaws. But they have their moments.

cyclops76 (10 years ago) Reply

Maybe I love Star Wars a little bit too much and that's why I don't resent any of the changes done to them. I'm so grateful to Lucas for giving me what I consider the greatest movie saga of all and IMHU he can milk it as much as he wants or alter them in whatever way he likes as long as the changes are just "cosmetic", I mean, it's not like he's reshaping the mithology, the characters are the same and so is the story. I know the prequels weren't nearly as good as the original trilogy but they were pretty awesome anyway. If there is just one change I could ask Mr. Lucas it would be for Han to shoot first, not that it matters that much but jus to please the fanboy in me. Looking forward to the Blu-ray edition and anything else he has in store.

judgefargo (10 years ago) Reply

cyclops76 wrote: ***I mean, it's not like he's reshaping the mithology,***


How about midi-fuckin-chlorians?

Anonymous (10 years ago) Reply

agentorange seems to be stirring up an issue isn't actually factual for the sake of sensationalism. If you go to the Youtube where the clip originates the creator of this video clearly states that he took the audio clip from Episode III and simply combined it with this clip from Episode VI.

agentorange (10 years ago) Reply

That may not be the exact scene, but the change is confirmed as per NY Times

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/lucasfilm-confirms-change-to-blu-ray-release-of-return-of-the-jedi/

judgefargo (10 years ago) Reply

***agentorange seems to be stirring up an issue isn't actually factual for the sake of sensationalism. If you go to the Youtube where the clip originates the creator of this video clearly states that he took the audio clip from Episode III and simply combined it with this clip from Episode VI.***



No he does NOT say that, he clearly states that the audio is from the new blu-ray but that the image is from the DVD. Plus the 2 occurences of 'NO' dialogue in the new ROTJ audio are pronounced completely different from the single 'NO' in Ep. II, it's 3 different pieces of dialogue in different films. Anyhow he's actually uploaded the real blu-ray version now and Lucasfilm have tole the New York Times that the changes HAVE been made in the new versions.

Anonymous (10 years ago) Reply

Since Star Wars is Lucas' intellectual property, he has the right to change it. But those of us who are fans of the original don't have to buy Lucas' revised Star Wars DVDs. I recommend not buying DVDs of the films if you don't like the changes & stick to DVDs that show the original content.

judgefargo (10 years ago) Reply

Since you can't buy HD versions of the originals without buying the 'special edition' DVDs from 2006, I advise downloading them 'illegally'.

cyclops76 (10 years ago) Reply

@judgefargo

Midiclorians are mentioned in the original theatrical release of Episode I and thus, part of the mithology, they weren't added for a special edition. Nothing in the special editions alters the foundations of the story, the changes are just cosmetical.

Hot Fuzz (10 years ago) Reply

I love how you guys keep using the word "mithology" like there wasn't a spelling mistake made. It makeseth me smiles :)

judgefargo (10 years ago) Reply

If you want to be a pedant it's best to get it right or you look as much the fool. One 'guy' not 'guys' spells it 'mithology' and was quoted as such

Mythology.

judgefargo (10 years ago) Reply

@ cyclops76


'Midichlorians' changed the nature and meaning of the force given in the OT, therefore it, as you say 'reshaped' the mythology so George did revise his mythology for the prequels and created a rather unfair/inegalitarian version of the ideal of 'the force' as it was presented by OBi-WAN in A NEW HOPE.

cyclops76 (10 years ago) Reply

@ Hot Fuzz: My Apologies, you're right sir in correcting me, Mythology is the correct way to spell the word. I excuse myself in advance for any future spelling mistakes.

@ judgefargo We were talking about the changes in the "special editions", midichlorians were not introduced in them but in Episode I. Once again, the changes done to the Special edtitons are "form changes" not "depth changes".

About Episode I and de Midichlorians, yes, before Phantom Menace we looked at the force in a certain way, then came the prequels and changed it but that change, wheter we like it or not, was made by the creative mind behind the saga and it's mythology (got it right this time Hot Fuzz). It may seem unfair to you while others, like me, accept the concept and see it as a complement to the early idea we had of the force.

judgefargo (10 years ago) Reply

...or a 'contradiction' in the mythology of the force and worse a revised contradiction that had no logical reason to be there.

It's not an expansion of the idea which I could accept but a contradiction which really doesn't sit well with the original. I expect Lucas will change Obi-Wan's Ep IV explanation in future editions to suit his midichlorian 'superior-warrior-caste' fantasy.

(10 years ago) Reply

Seeing as how both Midichlorians and the Force are fictional and in no way affect our daily lives, wtf does it matter? The Star Wars saga is one of the best no matter what. How about we look at it this way, at first (prequels) they thought it to be Midichlorians but then came to realize that it really was some kind of "supernatural" force (original trilogy). Maybe this is just a way of saying that evolution, although feasible, is not always correct.

judgefargo (10 years ago) Reply

***We were talking about the changes in the "special editions", midichlorians were not introduced in them but in Episode I. Once again, the changes done to the Special edtitons are "form changes" not "depth changes".***


Since the new versions of the OT are considered by the original 'creative mind' to be part of the whole 6 part saga, and he's slowly shaping them as such, all changes are made to that end so the films are no longer separate.

Since Ep. I he's intended to revise all the films to suit that end not to suit Eps IV-VI. Ep. I is the starting point to the change that follows, so in fact we can say Ep. I really was the start of that 'revision' -if not the special editions- of what he had originally created in the OT. I'm sure things will get worse before he pops-his-clogs.

cyclops76 (10 years ago) Reply

@ judgefargo I respect your point of view, it's backed up by a fair argument. As I mentioned before you know where I stand regarding the changes and stay by my statement that the Special editions do not alter the mythos.

In any case, it's always a pleasure to discuss with a fellow SW fan. Cheers.

seelsa73 (10 years ago) Reply

Midi-chlorians and the Force are not one and the same! Midi-chlorians are simply what allows the Jedi to access the Force to give them their "powers". The Force is still "an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together." Therefore Midi-chlorians do not change the mythology in any way whatsoever.

judgefargo (10 years ago) Reply

...and that elucidates my point.

The introduction of midi-cholrians destroyed the egalitarian ideal that any student learning the ways of the Force through their own perseverance, understanding and the more they put in of themselves 'spiritually' rather than 'physically', the stronger they could be and the better a JEDI they would be for it...

...but now, if a ' padawan' has a higher midi-chlorian count they are naturally by birthright stronger in the force and there's nothing a padawan with a lesser count can do about it, they are weaker in the Force because of 'physiology' rather than 'spirit' which is a rather fascistic idea akin to notions of familial bloodline superiority or a monarchist/elitist/royalist mentality. It puts a rather unequal, inegalitarian spin on the philosophical idealism of the Force that was put forth in the original trilogy.

It's a far cry from the 'Eastern' religions and philosophies that the ideal of the Force is based on where we are more than just matter and 'crude flesh' as Yoda says to Luke in Empire.

It's more like fascism and the notions of a superior caste or master-race which should really be more the Emperor's domain surely?


The Force didn't need any more explaining than was given by OBI-WAN & YODA in the OT, it was supposed to function in the story as a deep spiritual mystery beyond and in contrast to the abuse of base matter/physical might and power of the machine-hyper-technology of the Empire.

I'm sure devout fans can justify this contradiction in their heads via some convolution that is not present in the canon presented via the films but at the end of the day it's just bad story-telling logic.

seelsa73 (10 years ago) Reply

where do u get all this from?

judgefargo (10 years ago) Reply

***where do u get all this from?***


...the illogic of George's shitty writing. Something as sinple as the force in the OT didn'y need 'updating'.

seelsa73 (10 years ago) Reply

You call yourselves fans of star wars, gripe about every little change to the original trilogy as sacrilige when all it does is broaden the universe of star wars. All the changes made to the OT were a part of star wars when they were written but couldn't be out in the movies because the technology of the day wouldn't allow for it.

If script for the OT had been sitting on the shelf until such a time that technology would allow for the full vision to be fully realized, i.e. today, it would have looked a lot different from what was made in the late 70's but you can bet it would still be a classic.

JUDGE FARGO (10 years ago) Reply

***All the changes made to the OT were a part of star wars when they were written but couldn't be out in the movies because the technology of the day wouldn't allow for it.***

...so George couldn't put a few 'NOOOOOOOS' into Return of the Jedi back in 83 because the adio tech wasn't around back then?

seelsa73 (10 years ago) Reply

Ok I grant you the little audio things like that. But i'm talking about the bigger picture, like the added effects that spruce up the movies that all the purists have been moaning about since the special editions came out in '97.

And of course the midi-chlorians introduced in episode 1 which, from a logistical standpoint, doesn't change a thing about the Force.

juDGE FARGO (10 years ago) Reply

Like the terribly dated 'Mos Eisley' CGI FX?

Midichlorians changed the way characters could interact with the force therefore changes the point of it, logistically, in the story. Only certain characters can now really be Jedi.

cyclops76 (10 years ago) Reply

@ judgefargo

You made sense before the whole "fascistic idea" mess.

The topic of the original post refered to changes made for the "SPECIAL EDITION", I don't know when it became a discussion about the prequels. It's clear that you don't like them and you are entitled to that opinion but that has nothing to do with the changes made in the original trilogy and by that I refer to things like the "Nooooo" business which in no way alters the mythos.

Now, the midichlorian thing as I see it refers to a Jedi's potential but doesn't guarantee that he/she will become more powerful than other Jedis. The theme of "the dark side is an easier path" is still there, giving in to anger and hate allows any force-sensitive individual to attain vast powers but corrupst them in the process, midichlorians have nothing to do with that.

I agree that Obi-Wan's explanation of the force is a lot more romantic but, again, I don't see why that description of the force and the existence of midichlorians can't be seen as a complement.

seelsa73 (10 years ago) Reply

***Like the terribly dated 'Mos Eisley' CGI FX?***

As opposed to the perfectly modern x-wing effects of tho original ANH?

***Midichlorians changed the way characters could interact with the force therefore changes the point of it, logistically, in the story. Only certain characters can now really be Jedi.***

well duh. if everybody in the galaxy could do it there would be no Jedi.

JUDGE FARGO (10 years ago) Reply

***As opposed to the perfectly modern x-wing effects of tho original ANH?***

At least the fit-in with the FX in rest of the film. The Mos Eisley, Jabba and space redux FX stick out like a big CGI sore thumb and makes everything look like an uncrafted mess.

***well duh. if everybody in the galaxy could do it there would be no Jedi.***


...again you miss the point which is that being a JEDI ain't supposed to be easy but if anyone is willing to sacrifice their 'normal' life and forego the earthly trappings of family, love and earthly distractions they can be a JEDI, that's the ideal that was inspired by the Eastern monk-like philosohies.

Not everyone is willng to sacrifice these earthly things in the service of a 'higher' ideal or truth -as is the case in our own reality- and this was the point of being a 'pure' warrior-monk. It wouldn't serve the story if it was easy to become a JEDI and in some ways the plot device of Midichlorians ruins this idea and weakens what the JEDI are supposed to represent, Unmaterialistic Servants of the Republic not empowered by bloodlines.

cyclops76 (10 years ago) Reply

@ judgefargo

***being a JEDI ain't supposed to be easy but if anyone is willing to sacrifice their 'normal' life and forego the earthly trappings of family, love and earthly distractions they can be a JEDI

Not true, nothing like that was ever mentioned or implied, in fact, not all could follow that path, the force had to "be strong in you", meaning a jedi must be force-sensitive as not everyone is. In that aspect the midichlorians make a lot of sense as an explanatory device regarding why some people can learn to master the force and others cannot.

seelsa73 (10 years ago) Reply

***Not true, nothing like that was ever mentioned or implied, in fact, not all could follow that path, the force had to "be strong in you", meaning a jedi must be force-sensitive as not everyone is. In that aspect the midichlorians make a lot of sense as an explanatory device regarding why some people can learn to master the force and others cannot.***

exactly! well said cyclops78

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